The British Fantasy Society Forum

[Paul Campbell]

I am a member of precisely one internet forum.

This one.

I don't blog. I don't do Facebook, or MySpace, or LiveJournal, or Bebo. Or Twitter for that matter, thank you very much.

My absolute main motivation for hosting the Glasgow Open Night back in June this year was to get people the frak away from their friggin' computer monitors. To get them out there, to get them interacting. A bit of old-fashioned face-to-face human conversation (no wonder I love Fantasycon so much!).

It came as no surprise to me when Stephen Jones, in Best New Horror 19, described the Shocklines forum as "seditious".

I was, however, surprised to find Jones listing the Vault of Evil forum in his list of recommended online sites to visit at the back of Best New Horror 20. I made my own disparaging comments of the Vault of Evil forum within my review of Michael Kelly & Carol Weekes' novel Ouroboros in the Winter '08/'09 issue of Prism.

My opition of Vault of Evil hasn't changed, as this randomly and recently accessed thread ably demonstrates:

http://vaultofevil.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newsdusk&action=display&thread=3208

[Stephen Theaker]

Some sour grapes there! But we've all moaned when a film we think is rubbish wins the Oscars. Does it make a difference when we know the people involved? Should it?

To counter one specific point, as I mentioned at the AGM, voting levels on the shortlist were much higher than on the longlist, as we hoped they would be. More votes, fewer people to vote for - from that you can deduce that every winner had to earn its spurs.

I know you've got your reasons for shunning Facebook, Paul, but I tell you, there's a thriving network of BFS people on there, chatting every day. 

[Paul Campbell]

I know you've got your reasons for shunning Facebook, Paul, but I tell you, there's a thriving network of BFS people on there, chatting every day. 

I'm sure there is. Not interested. If I want to talk to someone I want to, oh gee I don't know, call me 19th century old fashioned -

- oh yeah: I want to talk to them.

Not to my friggin' Dell monitor. 

[Wayne Mook]

Don't blame you Paul. The whole damn thing is over rated.

Have to admit I prefer meeting people face to face.

Wayne.

[Mortbury]

Paul, I must admit I'm curious how you came to comment on the Vault of Evil in your review of Ouroboros...

[DFL]

My opition of Vault of Evil hasn't changed, as this randomly and recently accessed thread ably demonstrates:

http://vaultofevil.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newsdusk&action=display&thread=3208

I'm not sure what you mean by quoting that thread. I was complaining about someone calling a book 'shockingly bad' without context. And I feel Skunsworth and I won the argument.

  And they only have to read my review of the Single-Author Collection BFS winner to see why that book was up there with the best of them, the first prerequiste for it being there to be voted on in the first place.

[allybird]

In a week where there have been heated debates on women in horror - and now this?
 
And very, unprofessional behaviour from Mark Samuels.
Mark Samuels on the Vault of Evil ...'Are you honestly of the opinion that Alison's collection deserved to win on merit ahead of the other contenders, and not that it won mainly for other reasons?'

As for  Johnny Mains. He set against me last year on that board and his post was so abusive he had to remove it himself in the end.
 
And the person commenting on the The Caul Bearer. It was obviously set in the 19th century. I don't know what story is being referred to but it doesn't sound like mine.'
 

[sandranorval]

Gosh, I've only just joined and I'm hoping it's not always like this!

Anyway, I wanted to stand a little in defence of the internet. If you use it as a tool, not a life replacement it is brilliant. Too many people get carried away and disappear from the real world in favour of a virtual one. This isn't a good thing.

Using the networking sites should be seen as just that, networking. It's a way to have discussions with a wide variety of people before meeting them for the first time which means you already know a bit about each other.

The downside is that anyone can set up a blog or join a forum and the trick is to figure out who is worth paying attention to and who isn't. That list will be different for each individual but that is what is fascinating about humanity isn't it? You could consider it as life, but in writing.

But then, what do I know? 

[Ellen Datlow]

I don't know if Mark Samuels comes here much, but he's always claiming that favoritism wins awards, that no one who receives awards deserves them, blah blah blah. I  wonder if he indeed realizes that this just sounds like sour grapes.

I was in the field for over 20 years before winning the Hugo award. I might have personally been unhappy about not winning but I never ever whined about it in public or said that others only won because of popularity, cronyism, bias, or anything else. It's rude and makes one look like an ass.

So please, enough already. Suck it up!

[Paul Campbell]

Paul, I must admit I'm curious how you came to comment on the Vault of Evil in your review of Ouroboros...

I trawled the site for several months or so last year. It was my opinion that if - as seems the case on the vault of Evil forum - the pinnacle of horror consists of crabs and Guy N. Smith and that the genre died sometime around 1979, wouldn't be interested in a novel like Ouroboros.

[Paul Campbell]

My opition of Vault of Evil hasn't changed, as this randomly and recently accessed thread ably demonstrates:

http://vaultofevil.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newsdusk&action=display&thread=3208

I'm not sure what you mean by quoting that thread. I was complaining about someone calling a book 'shockingly bad' without context. And I feel Skunsworth and I won the argument.

  And they only have to read my review of the Single-Author Collection BFS winner to see why that book was up there with the best of them, the first prerequiste for it being there to be voted on in the first place.

I'm sure you do indeed feel that yourself and Simon Kurt Unsworth 'won' the arguement. But then, Des, as the entire infantile forum is beneath you both, where exactly is the sense of achievement? 

[DFL]

I'm sure you do indeed feel that yourself and Simon Kurt Unsworth 'won' the arguement. But then, Des, as the entire infantile forum is beneath you both, where exactly is the sense of achievement? 

Hey, it's got some wonderful archive materiial (and some nice people like 'Demonik', John L Probert, Craig Herbertson etc) , and including my Small Press Ark (20 pages) here:
http://vaultofevil.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=indie&action=display&thread=672

[Paul Campbell]

I'm sure you do indeed feel that yourself and Simon Kurt Unsworth 'won' the arguement. But then, Des, as the entire infantile forum is beneath you both, where exactly is the sense of achievement? 

Hey, it's got some wonderful archive materiial (and some nice people like 'Demonik', John L Probert, Craig Herbertson etc) , and including my Small Press Ark (20 pages) here:
http://vaultofevil.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=indie&action=display&thread=672

Indeed. Stand corrected. Must have missed that amongst the deluge of juvenile pigs baying.

[LouM]

Goodness me: I just read through the thread on that other board.
 
I've been pretty active online for years now: I think the first forum I joined was back in 2001, or thereabouts, and I've been a member of a variety of them - and a mod & admin on one (sadly now defunct, and noIdidnotdeleteitbyaccidentbeforeyouask!) - ever since. Some have come & gone, some are still around: it's very much in their nature.

The one consistent problem I've had with them is that there are people out there who use the fact they're sitting at a keyboard as an excuse for (at best) bad manners, and (at worst) personal attacks and grossly inappropriate behaviour - I've seen a fair amount of "I'm entitled to my opinion and no-one can tell me otherwise, and I intend to make sure everyone hears it!" over the years.... regardless of how balanced that opinion might be. Generally, though, it's tended to be from teenagers as opposed to adults. Go figure.

Fortunately for me, in my experience these types have always been in the minority, and in contrast I've made some very good friends via forums and boards online.

It's one thing to say that perhaps you thought another book (or film, or show or whatever) should have won an award, or to say that something isn't to your personal taste, but I don't think anything really deserves the kind of approach there - let alone "Bull Running for Girls"!

[CarolineC]

I'm sure you do indeed feel that yourself and Simon Kurt Unsworth 'won' the arguement. But then, Des, as the entire infantile forum is beneath you both, where exactly is the sense of achievement? 

Hey, it's got some wonderful archive materiial (and some nice people like 'Demonik', John L Probert, Craig Herbertson etc) , and including my Small Press Ark (20 pages) here:
http://vaultofevil.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=indie&action=display&thread=672

Er ... I'm still on the Vault forum too, folks. * raises hand a little sheepishly *  But I don't post much there now since the bust-up last year. I think the problem then was that there was an "us versus them" quarrel between the killer crabs/dogs/pigs/cats/locust lovers and the people who thought there was some really good horror writing going on nowadays (me, Des, Ally, Troo, and a few others). The former won in a way, so I've withdrawn from participating to a large extent as there isn't much of interest to me there now, though there's still some good stuff on there worth looking at (Des' cover ark being a prime example).

But I have a feeling this whole row - particularly aimed at Ally - is just a bit of a hangover and sour grapes from last year's row.

As folks here and elsewhere have said, it's fine to give a reasoned opinion why you don't agree with a book winning an award, or why you think something else was better, but the kind of vitriolic posts by some people there just don't do those people any favours at all. 

Ally - don't let them get to you.