Author Topic: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane  (Read 23331 times)

Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 10:26:56 AM »
'Yes, I have seen it - as I've said, although it's a private post, Ranjna showed it to me. In the post above, the one you were replying to, I contrasted that initial, positive reaction to your first mention of the idea, to the more measured reaction to the later post where you said the BFS committee wasn't keen.'

I disagree. They said what their thoughts were on the subject then. 'Measured reaction.' Why on earth would they repeat themselves?

'I've also seen where you said, "I know but those few on the BFS forum are not getting it at all", which I think is rather unfair. You've not said a word here to counter the reasons I've given for not supporting the proposal, and I've noticed that when you've quoted me on Facebook, you've been careful to avoid quoting those reasons!'


The link is there for people to see the reasons!












 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 10:45:23 AM by allybird »

Offline CarolineC

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 10:29:50 AM »
... the award for Best collection I'm suggesting could be in the actual award ceremony each year.  And not just one off... It could be in the actual award ceremony each year.

Sorry, Ally, I didn't mean it as a one-off. What I meant was an annual award which is presented at the BFAs each year - but if it was done the way I suggested it could be put in place by FCon 2014, rather than having to wait for the next AGM before the BFS would consider it. But I totally take your point about logistics - I know nothing about those kinds of things and was simply throwing the idea out there as a "thinking outside the box" suggestion which might solve the problem.

Stephen - sorry, I wasn't talking about non-communication re the BFAs. If anything, you're one of only two members of the committee who regularly communicate with members, for which I and others greatly appreciate you. No, I was talking about lack of communication with members generally - the reason why so many people aren't bothering to renew their membership, as far as I can see.

But that's not an issue for this thread - this thread is about how the BFS can best remember Joel. As I've said above, I'm sure he'd be wanting to bring people together here - whether that's with or without BFS involvement (was he a member?) is clearly a matter for the BFS membership.
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Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 10:37:43 AM »
Understood...Caroline.






Offline Rolnikov

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 11:10:04 AM »
It is public. How on earth could I simply paste this on here. And Stephen. 'muttering behind the bike sheds' is a very poor choice of words.

No, your Facebook threads on the subject are all set to private, only visible to your friends, maybe your friends of friends. Not sure why it's a poor choice of words. That's what I think about Facebook in general, why I don't use it! It's not an open conversation. Not sure what "How on earth could I simply paste this on here" means.

I disagree. They said what their thoughts were on the subject then. 'Measured reaction.' Why on earth would they repeat themselves?

My point was that no one posted to say, hey, the BFS committee has got it wrong, we should *definitely* have five awards named after men. Everyone who had anything to say said we had come to the right conclusion.

But as I've explained, even if every single BFS member had liked your post on Facebook, and had turned up in this thread to endorse your proposal, even if I supported it myself, that wouldn't change a thing. Changes to the awards rules can only be made at the AGM. Your options are to wait for the AGM in September and hope it gets voted in, or to go your own way with a separate award. Sorry if you find that unhelpful, but that is the system our members voted for.

Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 11:20:03 AM »
Your help has been much appreciated, Stephen ....but I have to say I don't think many people really like coming to this forum. They prefer to chat on facebook.

Certainly what I have said on facebook has been there with the links to this so the people who do have access, and have read my comments, can see the discussion/your reasoning etc through the link.

 

Offline Rolnikov

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 11:39:49 AM »
Your help has been much appreciated, Stephen ....but I have to say I don't think many people really like coming to this forum. They prefer to chat on facebook.

Certainly what I have said on facebook has been there with the links to this so the people who do have access, and have read my comments, can see the discussion/your reasoning etc through the link.

That's fine. Just be aware that as long as you're discussing these issues on your private Facebook posts, only you and your friends can see them. You could make the relevant posts public easily enough if you want to, but I do understand why many people prefer to keep their Facebook completely private.

Offline Emma Audsley1

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2013, 11:40:50 AM »
As a member I agree & would think it suitable to name an award after Joel Lane.
 He was an upstanding figure in dark fiction, poetry & a talented anthologist...of course it's suitable!
 I have read both threads referring to the naming & I disagree with the fact that a postal vote would be useless, as an active member I'm beginning to feel that there isn't much of a point to pay my membership dues & review for the BFS is I have no say in this. I know that other members are feeling the same.

 Now, how can I lobby for this to be brought up? I, & many others, have this wish...What are the guideline recommendations saying that I have no say?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:12:21 AM by Emma Audsley1 »

Offline Emma Audsley1

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2013, 11:42:53 AM »
I too would like to know how this will work...please ensure I have full access to the process as a paying active membership.

Offline Emma Audsley1

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2013, 11:51:40 AM »
Sorry, Allyson, as a member, and as the administrator of the awards, I'm not in favour either, for the same reason I was against naming an award after Robert Holdstock, here. I think it's notable that we now have four awards named for men. Despite my respect for Joel's work, I'm against making that five. I'd prefer to scale back the number of named awards we have, if anything.

The BFS committee has discussed the idea, and would prefer to find different ways to honour Joel's life and work, for example at next year's FantasyCon. But as explained above, it's not in our power to say yes or no to a proposal to change the awards rules. If a member proposes this at next year's AGM the committee's votes count for no more or less than the votes of other members.

How are our handbooks paid for? Do we not provide the necessary monies needed to publish other BFS publications to be printed only to have to purchase the books later?
 Look at the cost of the conventions, not everyone can afford that but countless still attend.
 
 Again, a member's vote SHOULD count. Especially if there are so many of us who wish for this to happen.
 Furthermore, our votes decide who wins awards, so why can't we build a society that is deemed fitting of us?

  It does cost money for individuals to publish, I'm in the middle of saving money to publish my own charity anthology When Darkness Calls, it's not easy! We should have the full support of the committee & have guidelines that ensure we have something pliable, not unsupportive.

Offline Rolnikov

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2013, 11:53:11 AM »
As a member I agree & would think it suitable to name an award after Joel Lane.
 He was an upstanding figure in dark fiction, poetry & a talented anthologies...of course it's suitable!
 I have read both threads referring to the naming & I disagree with the fact that a postal vote would be useless, as an active member I'm beginning to feel that there isn't much of a point to pay my membership dues & review for the BFS is I have no say in this. I know that other members are feeling the same.

 Now, how can I lobby for this to be brought up? I, & many others, have this wish...What are the guideline recommendations saying that I have no say?

As a member, you have exactly the same amount of say as any of us: you can propose changes at the AGM and you can vote at the AGM.

Proposed changes to the awards rules must be submitted in writing to the chair. They will be considered at the next AGM, which will be at FantasyCon next September. Note that you do not need to pay for FantasyCon to attend the AGM. If seconded, proposals will be put to a vote (usually after a bit of discussion).

The current system for making changes to the awards was decided following a membership-wide vote (here). The awards constitution can be read here. This is the relevant part:

Quote
Changes to these guidelines may only be made by a vote at the AGM of the British Fantasy Society, taken according to the same rules of procedure outlined in the BFS constitution. A committee vote may not be used to reverse a decision made at an AGM.

Hope that's helpful.

Offline Ramsey Campbell

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2013, 11:57:26 AM »
I do think naming an award for Joel would honour both his memory and the Society. As well as a fine fiction writer, Joel was one of the most perceptive critics the field has ever seen.

Offline pitman

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2013, 12:10:55 PM »
With all due respect, and I like the idea a lot, but maybe it would be better to wait a little, till emotions are quieter, to decide the best way to commemorate Joel? Whether an award, or a publlication, or what. Just a suggestion.

Offline Emma Audsley1

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2013, 12:17:15 PM »
I do think naming an award for Joel would honour both his memory and the Society. As well as a fine fiction writer, Joel was one of the most perceptive critics the field has ever seen.

 He was, a fine example to future generations of writers, critics & anthologists!

Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2013, 12:23:49 PM »
Hi Marian...there are five anthologies in the planning stage which we know about. It is a permanent award some of us want. Given WITHIN the existing BFS awards ....year after year. Not set apart.

Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2013, 12:25:12 PM »
Well said Ramsey. 'I do think naming an award for Joel would honour both his memory and the Society. As well as a fine fiction writer, Joel was one of the most perceptive critics the field has ever seen.'