Author Topic: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane  (Read 65987 times)

Offline LeeH

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #90 on: December 06, 2013, 08:03:50 pm »
Rather than an attempt to kick it into the long grass, it was a suggestion that would put the issue in front of the majority of the membership, rather than the half dozen or so members and non-members that are contributing to this thread. The forum *is* more immediate, but if you truly want the views of the members to be taken into consideration you have to take the proposal to the members, rather than hope they'll turn up.

As for making it happen by next FantasyCon, unfortunately, the society's constitution does not allow for that possibility, as has been previously mentioned.
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Offline CarolineC

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #91 on: December 06, 2013, 08:11:37 pm »
Meanwhile, I think we need from the new management some transcendent statesmanship or vision regarding this thread's particular debate.

I was just about to say (and I've said this on Ally's post on Facebook too), James Barclay has said on Ally's FB post that the committee is looking at possible options for ways to honour Joel. I definitely think now is the time perhaps for everyone to step back from this discussion for a while and see what comes out of that. People have put their points across - on here and on Facebook - so why not let's wait and see what the outcome of the deliberations are? Then, we can comment on what's been decided - whether we agree or disagree.
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Offline Des Lewis

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2013, 08:14:40 pm »
As for making it happen by next FantasyCon, unfortunately, the society's constitution does not allow for that possibility, as has been previously mentioned.

I thought someone was suggesting a members' electronic vote had worked in the past to by-pass the constitution. But as your statement above is categorical, your suggestion for the journal is possibly a better one than this forum - as long as the journal is timely.
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Offline Des Lewis

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2013, 08:21:33 pm »

I was just about to say (and I've said this on Ally's post on Facebook too), James Barclay has said on Ally's FB post that the committee is looking at possible options for ways to honour Joel. I definitely think now is the time perhaps for everyone to step back from this discussion for a while...

I agree, Caroline, but dismayed that he didn't first come to this thread on the official BFS forum to say whatever he needed to say.
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Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2013, 08:22:26 pm »
Yes that was yesterday, after the previous statement that the committee did not want to take it forward....Perhaps something has changed.

With all respect Caroline, and as Lee has said ...debate is healthy. I think many do not want to be told not to discuss what we want to discuss.

Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2013, 08:23:28 pm »
Des...'I thought someone was suggesting a members' electronic vote had worked in the past to by-pass the constitution. '

I'd like to know more about that.

Peter C 'As Stephen (I think it was him) said, policy changes are made at the AGM. This raises another issue: how many members should attend an AGM in order to change anything? I don't mean the minimum needed to made a quorum as indicated in the constitution -- I mean a greater representation of the membership. Perhaps postal or online ballots need to be considered in the future to validate AGM decisions.'

Good point. IF I do rejoin I'd probably never be able to get over from New Zealand for an AGM/EGM so does that leave me out of the voting process on issues raised at these meetings? Especially if the wording changes at the meeting. Discussions could be held on here and at the AGM and then send it to a postal/online vote. If we had postal/online voting would that not be better AND we would not have to wait years (two in the case I'm talking about) a very, very long time.  If a postal vote and an online vote happened ALL the membership would be covered. Whenever I've been at the AGM it always seems such a rushed affair because of the number of issues to deal with on the day.

And this is where you could get perhaps people coming to the forum. List the proposals etc...people talk about..and at the AGM. Send a postal/electronic vote and get all involved.

Voting for something at the AGM/before an Xmas party in London leaves a lot of members out. Although electronic voting was included this last time.

http://www.britishfantasysociety.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3114.0

'Members unable to attend the EGM in person will be able to vote electronically.' No postal vote? Could be sent out with the journal.

How can anything be worked out against a show of hands and electronic voting?

Does/has electronic voting happened for an AGM? I've only ever seen a hands up (outmoded) vote with members attending on the day.



« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 08:26:24 pm by allybird »

Offline CarolineC

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2013, 08:33:04 pm »
With all respect Caroline, and as Lee has said ...debate is healthy. I think many do not want to be told not to discuss what we want to discuss.

Well, yes, it is .. as long as that debate IS healthy. But sometimes this thread seems to be boiling over into something a little unhealthy with unfortunate aggression creeping in (I'm trying not to say from which side here - I'm trying to be a little diplomatic!). I just feel that, if things are being discussed at committee level, unless there's something new to add to the discussion there isn't any point in continuing to go over old ground.

Don't get me wrong, Ally - I'm on your side here. I really do think there needs to be some kind of permanent BFS memorial to Joel - whether that's a named award or something else. I also think the gender issue Stephen brought up earlier is a nonsense. But that's my own personal view - I may be right and I may be wrong. I just don't want to see this thread descend into bickering. All I'm saying is .. now the committee has heard the views, let's see what they come up with. Then, we can comment on their proposal - good or bad.
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Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2013, 09:15:51 pm »
Much appreciated and understood Caroline.

But there are a few points/questions to be discussed and we've been discussing them calmly....for instance... If I rejoin (£60 for being overseas) can I have a vote at the AGM? Electronic or postal? I will not be able to travel from New Zealand next year. Voting on a proposal for an award for Joel? (if that can't be done earlier actually by online/postal voting).

Actually that is a good point Des. Why can't we have a proposal Dec/Jan and have an online/postal voting process (postal can go out with the journal) and have it sorted out in a reasonable length of time.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 09:19:14 pm by allybird »

Offline LeeH

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #98 on: December 06, 2013, 09:39:36 pm »
Why can't we have a proposal Dec/Jan and have an online/postal voting process (postal can go out with the journal) and have it sorted out in a reasonable length of time.

Because what you're proposing is a change to the constitution, and that can only be done at an AGM. I thought this had been covered, already?
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Offline Emma Audsley1

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #99 on: December 06, 2013, 09:52:07 pm »
Wow, this has got unpleasantly personal. If people think I'm the problem in this discussion, I'm happy to bow out. I've done my job. I've explained what the rules are. I've explained how you can go about changing them. You know I'm not going to ignore them. You also know why I'm against this proposal. At the moment I can't think of anything further to add to my comments on these issues, and many of the recent comments are I think answered by posts earlier in the thread. Over to you.

 It did seem to get personal, from all sides. I still feel that gender shouldn't have been thrown in in that manner though. I was addressed directly, though I was not the one it was aimed at in the first place.
 I do not appreciate it, neither do I feel as though my direct question has been answered. I won't pretend that I also didn't feel upset at this Stephen, I am. I'm none the wiser when I've been addressed, wait for a response & no one comes back until it's been talked over away from the forum.

 This really did not have to go in this direction.

Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #100 on: December 06, 2013, 09:54:16 pm »
Where is it in the constitution that we can't have what I've suggested?

here..?

http://www.britishfantasysociety.co.uk/about-the-bfs/the-constitution-of-the-british-fantasy-society/

or in general notes where ever they are on the site. Link provided by Stephen earlier.

http://www.britishfantasysociety.co.uk/the-british-fantasy-awards-constitution-ii/

or here in a forum post...

http://www.britishfantasysociety.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2075.0

It needs to be all in one place, also. It is very confusing...Am I missing something with everything not being in a proper written updated constitution...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 10:01:10 pm by allybird »

Offline Jen

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #101 on: December 09, 2013, 03:13:09 pm »
Or if sticking Joel's name on something is what people want, do it on the BFS story comp instead? That wouldn't need an AGM vote would it? And it covers both his interest in short fiction and his encouragement of new talent.  So the BFS/Joel Lane Prize for Short Fiction, kinda thing.

Sorry, not currently a member, shutting up now.   ;)

Offline Des Lewis

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2013, 03:20:21 pm »
Or if sticking Joel's name on something is what people want, do it on the BFS story comp instead? That wouldn't need an AGM vote would it? And it covers both his interest in short fiction and his encouragement of new talent.  So the BFS/Joel Lane Prize for Short Fiction, kinda thing.

Sorry, not currently a member, shutting up now.   ;)

That sounds like a brainwave to me. :)

Sorry, just realised that my previous post is more relevant in this  thread than the one I put it in:

It's just a question of what to do with a situation where we have an unprecedented upsurge of feeling worldwide up and down the spectrum of luminaries and fans toward an active and popular member of our Society who is known in many circles as a significant fiction writer, poet, literary critic, activist, visionary and friend.
If I may be allowed one more suggestion. Have a timely vote in January and if members want an award named after Joel, then we shall call that award the Joel Lane award by some sort of 'common law' and then it is rubber-stamped at the next available AGM.
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Offline Peter Coleborn

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2013, 03:23:21 pm »
Or if sticking Joel's name on something is what people want, do it on the BFS story comp instead? That wouldn't need an AGM vote would it? And it covers both his interest in short fiction and his encouragement of new talent.  So the BFS/Joel Lane Prize for Short Fiction, kinda thing.

Sorry, not currently a member, shutting up now.   ;)

Good idea Jen.

Offline allybird

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Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2013, 06:25:13 pm »
Or if sticking Joel's name on something is what people want, do it on the BFS story comp instead? That wouldn't need an AGM vote would it? And it covers both his interest in short fiction and his encouragement of new talent.  So the BFS/Joel Lane Prize for Short Fiction, kinda thing.

Sorry, not currently a member, shutting up now.   ;)

Sorry Jen. 'Sticking Joel's name on something,' Named after a competition? Not enough ....Joel was a giant in the genre.

Ligotti on Joel..
'The death of Joel Lane is indeed a sad loss, not only for those who knew him personally (a number that unfortunately I cannot count myself among) but also for ghost and gothic literature. Indeed, his contributions to these genres elevated their literary standing for over twenty-five years. All appraisal of this species of writing is now lessened by his absence. I recall marveling at the enviable and especially the urbane quality of his fiction in British fanzines as early as the 1980s, when he appeared in such publications as David Sutton and Stephen Jones’s Fantasy Tales and anthologies including Karl Edward Wagner’s Year’s Best Horror Stories. As I’ve remarked in interviews and elsewhere, I’ve always had a special admiration and appetite for British horror and ghost fiction, and Joel Lane was a master among his peers in that country. I also admired Joel as a literary critic. Among several examples of his critical acumen I relished was his essay on Robert Bloch’s contribution to the Cthulhu Mythos in the novel Strange Eons. This consideration of what is perhaps the best of Bloch’s novels stirred me to read and admire this work, which I had acquired from its publisher (Stuart Schiff’s Whispers Press) but had not yet read. On a personal note, I’ll always remember Joel’s extensive review of my omnibus collection The Nightmare Factory. His opening comment on the stories of mine that first appeared in this volume was simply the following: “They are excellent.” Coming from Joel, I felt confident that these new stories had succeeded, and a number of them have been since counted among my better works. I regret that I never communicated the appreciation and respect I held for him throughout his career.'