Author Topic: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane  (Read 63770 times)

Offline Emma Audsley1

  • Emma Audsley
  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
    • The Horrifically Horrifying Horror Blog
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2013, 12:27:12 pm »
I can't find my posts on this thread...are they appearing?

Offline Emma Audsley1

  • Emma Audsley
  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
    • The Horrifically Horrifying Horror Blog
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2013, 12:30:17 pm »
As a member I agree & would think it suitable to name an award after Joel Lane.
 He was an upstanding figure in dark fiction, poetry & a talented anthologies...of course it's suitable!
 I have read both threads referring to the naming & I disagree with the fact that a postal vote would be useless, as an active member I'm beginning to feel that there isn't much of a point to pay my membership dues & review for the BFS is I have no say in this. I know that other members are feeling the same.

 Now, how can I lobby for this to be brought up? I, & many others, have this wish...What are the guideline recommendations saying that I have no say?

As a member, you have exactly the same amount of say as any of us: you can propose changes at the AGM and you can vote at the AGM.

Proposed changes to the awards rules must be submitted in writing to the chair. They will be considered at the next AGM, which will be at FantasyCon next September. Note that you do not need to pay for FantasyCon to attend the AGM. If seconded, proposals will be put to a vote (usually after a bit of discussion).

The current system for making changes to the awards was decided following a membership-wide vote (here). The awards constitution can be read here. This is the relevant part:

Quote
Changes to these guidelines may only be made by a vote at the AGM of the British Fantasy Society, taken according to the same rules of procedure outlined in the BFS constitution. A committee vote may not be used to reverse a decision made at an AGM.

Hope that's helpful.

 Looking into it now Stephen!

Offline CarolineC

  • Elder Darkness
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
    • View Profile
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2013, 12:35:52 pm »
I can't find my posts on this thread...are they appearing?

I can see them, Emma. This thread is now four pages long - perhaps you've missed out a page when you were looking through it?
Please 'like' Frightful Horrors on Facebook
www.facebook.com/frightfulhorrorsuk

Offline Rolnikov

  • TQF co-editor
  • BFS Reviewers
  • Elder Darkness
  • *****
  • Posts: 3027
    • View Profile
    • Theaker's Quarterly Fiction
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2013, 01:04:41 pm »
That link/survey is no longer available Stephen.

Sorry, I can't help with that I wasn't on the committee then. But so far as the bit you're interested in, the rules had previously said:

Quote
Changes to this constitution may only be made (1) by a vote at the AGM of the  British Fantasy Society, taken according to the same rules of procedure outlined in the BFS constitution, or (2) by a formal vote of the committee of the British Fantasy Society. A committee vote may not be used to reverse a decision made at an AGM. An AGM vote may reverse a committee decision, but the committee decision remains effective until the current awards have been presented. The online version of the constitution must be updated at the earliest opportunity with any changes made, and any significant changes should be notified to the membership through Prism.

This was changed to:

Quote
Changes to these guidelines may only be made by a vote at the AGM of the British Fantasy Society, taken according to the same rules of procedure outlined in the BFS constitution. A committee vote may not be used to reverse a decision made at an AGM.

I'm not certain why it was changed, but presumably it was to limit the power of the committee, and keep it firmly in the hands of members at the AGM. Maybe also to prevent changes being made in the middle of an awards cycle?

Marion and Ramsey were among the five-strong team who proposed the change, so they may be able to explain it better.

Offline Peter Coleborn

  • Publisher, The Alchemy Press
  • Elder Darkness
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
    • View Profile
    • Peter Coleborn / Alchemy Press
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2013, 02:05:14 pm »
Although Allyson and I are Facebook friends I did not see any of her posts regarding the proposal to rename one of the BFS awards. FB is *not* the ideal forum to have such a discussion.

And if people want to influence BFS policies -- whatever policies -- become a member and argue from within the tent.


Offline allybird

  • Barbarian Monarch
  • ****
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
    • Allyson Bird website
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2013, 05:52:16 pm »
'Although Allyson and I are Facebook friends I did not see any of her posts regarding the proposal to rename one of the BFS awards. FB is *not* the ideal forum to have such a discussion.'

As I said ...members/people considering rejoining ...find it difficult for many reasons to post here. I certainly have my reasons which I will not bring up on a Joel post.

'And if people want to influence BFS policies -- whatever policies -- become a member and argue from within the tent.'

I'll look into rejoining from NZ. But ...I should be able to bring anything up, look at all the information given, and discuss it here, whilst considering that.

Offline jim mcleod

  • Bletherskite
  • BFS Reviewers
  • Barbarian Monarch
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
    • View Profile
    • The Ginger Nuts of Horror
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2013, 06:05:38 pm »
With all due respect, and I like the idea a lot, but maybe it would be better to wait a little, till emotions are quieter, to decide the best way to commemorate Joel? Whether an award, or a publlication, or what. Just a suggestion.

I agree completely, this thread is in danger of becoming tipping over into something nasty. 

Offline allybird

  • Barbarian Monarch
  • ****
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
    • Allyson Bird website
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2013, 06:56:30 pm »
We are discussing it sensibly. It has been suggested that we discuss it on this forum and that is what we are doing.

Emma. Yes ....the constitution is here..
http://www.britishfantasysociety.co.uk/the-british-fantasy-awards-constitution-ii/

But then there are threads saying changes are 'here' and 'here.' It really needs to be written out properly again.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:03:22 pm by allybird »

Offline Peter Coleborn

  • Publisher, The Alchemy Press
  • Elder Darkness
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
    • View Profile
    • Peter Coleborn / Alchemy Press
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2013, 09:31:46 pm »
'Although Allyson and I are Facebook friends I did not see any of her posts regarding the proposal to rename one of the BFS awards. FB is *not* the ideal forum to have such a discussion.'

As I said ...members/people considering rejoining ...find it difficult for many reasons to post here. I certainly have my reasons which I will not bring up on a Joel post.

'And if people want to influence BFS policies -- whatever policies -- become a member and argue from within the tent.'

I'll look into rejoining from NZ. But ...I should be able to bring anything up, look at all the information given, and discuss it here, whilst considering that.

I can't imagine why anyone finds it difficult to post anything on the BFS forum. My comment is that a thread on FB isn't a true discussion because threads vanish all too quickly and, indeed, not everyone with something to contribute is going to be a FB friend. Surely the best place to have an active discussion about BFS issues is on the BFS forum. (And I have no idea what your reasons are, and if not relevant to the discussion there is no need to bring them up here.)

My comment about being in the tent is that one can only affect BFS policies by being a member. That does not preclude anyone from joining in with suggestions. Otherwise these forums would be open only to BFS members, which they are not -- anyone can post their views.

As Stephen (I think it was him) said, policy changes are made at the AGM. This raises another issue: how many members should attend an AGM in order to change anything? I don't mean the minimum needed to made a quorum as indicated in the constitution -- I mean a greater representation of the membership. Perhaps postal or online ballots need to be considered in the future to validate AGM decisions.

And if anyone re-news their membership they'll receive copies of the BFS anthologies (while stocks last). 



Offline allybird

  • Barbarian Monarch
  • ****
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
    • Allyson Bird website
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2013, 11:34:04 pm »
'As Stephen (I think it was him) said, policy changes are made at the AGM. This raises another issue: how many members should attend an AGM in order to change anything? I don't mean the minimum needed to made a quorum as indicated in the constitution -- I mean a greater representation of the membership. Perhaps postal or online ballots need to be considered in the future to validate AGM decisions.'

Good point. IF I do rejoin I'd probably never be able to get over from New Zealand for an AGM/EGM so does that leave me out of the voting process on issues raised at these meetings? Especially if the wording changes at the meeting. Discussions could be held on here and at the AGM and then send it to a postal/online vote. If we had postal/online voting would that not be better AND we would not have to wait years (two in the case I'm talking about) a very, very long time.  If a postal vote and an online vote happened ALL the membership would be covered. Whenever I've been at the AGM it always seems such a rushed affair because of the number of issues to deal with on the day.

And this is where you could get perhaps people coming to the forum. List the proposals etc...people talk about..and at the AGM. Send a postal/electronic vote and get all involved.

Voting for something at the AGM/before an Xmas party in London leaves a lot of members out. Although electronic voting was included this last time.

http://www.britishfantasysociety.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3114.0

'Members unable to attend the EGM in person will be able to vote electronically.' No postal vote? Could be sent out with the journal.

How can anything be worked out against a show of hands and electronic voting?

Does/has electronic voting happened for an AGM? I've only ever seen a hands up (outmoded) vote with members attending on the day.

And how do we send in our nominations? By electronic post!

Who is on the committee? What posts are vacant? And no I can't volunteer. I'm doing enough as it is for the horror genre with being Chair of Stoker Collections with the HWA. :)

Where are the minutes of the last AGM? Are they published online? If not ...Have the members who could not attend Fantasycon been sent a copy?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:39:20 am by allybird »

Offline Emma Audsley1

  • Emma Audsley
  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
    • The Horrifically Horrifying Horror Blog
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2013, 12:14:00 am »
With all due respect, and I like the idea a lot, but maybe it would be better to wait a little, till emotions are quieter, to decide the best way to commemorate Joel? Whether an award, or a publlication, or what. Just a suggestion.

I agree completely, this thread is in danger of becoming tipping over into something nasty.  

 Jim, we'll all be staying calm & reasonable. This is about Joel, it's highlighted some aspects that is due some consideration too.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 01:59:34 am by Emma Audsley1 »

Offline Emma Audsley1

  • Emma Audsley
  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
    • The Horrifically Horrifying Horror Blog
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2013, 08:52:01 am »
Not many members post on this forum. When I mentioned it on facebook it got over 50 positive responses. Many from writers we all know. Whether they are members or not I can't say....hence it would be good to have a vote on it.

I think most of the AGM regulars do post here, at least every now and then. I can see why so many of your Facebook friends clicked like - it was a very sweet idea, and no one had yet explained why we might not want to do it. When later on you posted on Facebook to say the BFS committee wasn't keen, it looks like there were more people saying they agreed with us than saying we'd got it wrong (though of course privacy settings may mean I'm getting a misleading impression).
If it's proposed and seconded at the oM, there will be a vote, don't worry. I might be wrong about the outcome. You've got nine months to build support for the proposal. Lots of new people might shrug off their hangovers and turn up at next year's AGM (which would be very welcome) and vote it through. I'm just saying that it might be a good idea for you to explore other options, especially if you already think a year is too long to wait, because renaming a BFS award can't possibly happen any sooner than that, and might not happen even then.

 I'm just catching up on this thread.
 Stephen, my fb privacy is open so every post I comment on can be viewed via my wall if that helps.
 As for what the majority of the writing community are pushing for, I've seen for myself what an impact Joel Lane had. As a close friend he meant a lot to me & so many. For the genre an award named after Joel would obviously be greatly appreciated, the BFS is the ideal place to have this.
 It would also show great respect to push this forward, using the technology we have at our disposal. I personally have experience with forming online polls & consolidating the data, even making an app that members could download & be transferred straight to a poll...anything is possible & I strongly believe that tech like this can be utilised in so many ways as to benefit the BFS, I would happily volunteer to make this possible.
 Posts on social networks that are used daily seem more convenient to access & share our views. I'm sure most of us saw fb explode on the morning following Joel's death. We all saw the outpouring of love, the tributes, the quotes from his various works...doesn't this all show us just how important he was to the genre?
 If we showed a massive effort to make this happen AND improve the accessibility of our society I'm sure our membership numbers would boost massively. I'm sure of it. We've all seen the decline in renewals & New memberships, it's not good. We need to be so much more than a convention once per year, we need to be the go-to place for writers & readers alike. I would happily use my skills to make this happen if I were to be included.
 Joel has actually showed us the unity issues we have in the genre. We should show our appreciation & support while people are still here, what better recognition of this would there be to give the community what they so surely desire?

 Now, I'll catch up with the rest of the thread. I just wanted to reply to your post directly before I went on...we need to look at the community as a whole, not just the wishes of our members.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 09:35:32 am by Emma Audsley1 »

Offline Rolnikov

  • TQF co-editor
  • BFS Reviewers
  • Elder Darkness
  • *****
  • Posts: 3027
    • View Profile
    • Theaker's Quarterly Fiction
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2013, 09:11:15 am »
With regard to keeping the conversation civil, it would be good if we could keep the re-writing of posts using the edit function down to a minimum, out of respect for other forum users. It's frustrating to compose a careful reply to a post and then discover that new paragraphs have been inserted into the post to which you're responding.

If those in favour of the proposal feel a vote of the entire membership would be more appropriate instead of an AGM vote, it's quite possible to propose that under the current rules. Just make that part of the proposal to the AGM. For example:

"I propose that a membership-wide vote be taken during October to decide whether a fifth British Fantasy Award should have a male writer's name attached to it. The purpose of this proposal is to cement the society's reputation for institutional sexism."

You may decide on slightly different wording, of course.

Emma, no, that doesn't allow people who are not your Facebook friends to see private threads that you have commented on. I'm not bothered about seeing them, I'm just making the point that one can't choose to discuss things privately and then complain that people aren't listening.

If you want use your skills to contribute to the society, that would be very welcome indeed. There's a list of vacant positions here. Sounds like you'd be well suited to either of the available positions.

Offline Emma Audsley1

  • Emma Audsley
  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
    • The Horrifically Horrifying Horror Blog
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2013, 09:38:52 am »
I've just been looking at the vacancies oddly enough!

 I know myself that it would take up most of your time Stephen, I just thought that I could try to help.

 I know it would mean a lot to the community at large & we can show our acknowledgement to them by making this possible...I really think it would strengthen us all on the whole.

Offline allybird

  • Barbarian Monarch
  • ****
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
    • Allyson Bird website
Re: Proposing an award named for Joel Lane
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2013, 09:40:28 am »
"I propose that a membership-wide vote be taken during October to decide whether a fifth British Fantasy Award should have a male writer's name attached to it. The purpose of this proposal is to cement the society's reputation for institutional sexism."

You may decide on slightly different wording, of course.'

There was no need for that flippancy, Stephen. We are talking about Joel Lane here also. I man we all admired and loved very much.