Author Topic: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions  (Read 11087 times)

VirgilKain

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2006, 09:10:14 am »
Regardless of how many Mods you have the forums won't pick up until members start visiting.
The members you have that do come are mainly small press and all they do is mention what they have coming out and when.
There is a severe lack of banter because of the individual selfish attitudes.

I have, in my limited experience found some of the BFS to be this way. There is, and this is hard to escape, a degree of elitism (is that the word?) that comes across. I noticed this at last years FantasyCon. On the whole members were friendly and Vicky, Debbie and team do a great job, but there are certain groups that sit in their ivory towers (groups) with an atmospheric wall around them, a sense of 'we're better than you' . These people are more interested in using the FantasyCon as a self congrats party for themselves when really they should be moving around and making sure they know everyone. Even if they really have no interest in whats going on they should treat the little fish with the same grace they drool over the special guests.

I am at this years Con and I hope that more people are more forthcoming towards the fans and members.

Recently I went to a convention in the States and they really know how to be. Even the biggest celebs (except one) mingled and said hello to everyone. Authors and publishers made sure that they got to know each other, as they know to make new friends they have to network.

This may sound like a moan, but I do believe the BFS is a good thing, however, it could be great if it was run better. I visit many discussion boards and read many a post about people that have left in favour of rival societies. This must show in membership figures.
C R Barker has made a few posts about his thoughts right here and it is with sadness that I find myself agreeing with some of his points.

The BFS (in fact the entire small press) needs a total overhaul, it needs to move with the times, bring in and embrace the new blood if it wants to flourish in, what is, a declining area of the market.

Hadesgate attempted to bring everyone together. In response it recieved three positive replies from UK firms. The response, from the States, however, was huge and they are now forging links on the other side of the pond that are showing a mass increase in sales. If we all worked together we could take Fantasy and Dark fiction back to where it deserves to be. The readers haven't vanished they've just lost sight of us in a sea of mass produced pap. We just need to stand together so that they can find us again.

Paula, Dave and myself will all be attending Nottingham so all of you, please come over and say hi at Steve Dean's after launch party. We really need to talk about the future.

Offline Jen

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2006, 12:24:32 pm »
Quote
The BFS (in fact the entire small press) needs a total overhaul, it needs to move with the times, bring in and embrace the new blood if it wants to flourish in, what is, a declining area of the market.

Hadesgate attempted to bring everyone together. In response it recieved three positive replies from UK firms. The response, from the States, however, was huge and they are now forging links on the other side of the pond that are showing a mass increase in sales. If we all worked together we could take Fantasy and Dark fiction back to where it deserves to be. The readers haven't vanished they've just lost sight of us in a sea of mass produced pap. We just need to stand together so that they can find us again.

This isn't that SP alliance thingy you were touting a few months back is it?  (That was you wasn't it?  Thought there was an email, but can't find it... also, couldn't find anything on the Hadesgate boards... probably me going a bit bug crazy...)  Any chance you can expand and do a post in the Indie Press section so we can discuss properly?   ;D 

Also, if you were wanting to leak news about the Mystery Product in Prism, I need your blurb in the next couple of days as Prism is off to the printer on Tuesday morning ready for mailing 2nd week of September...

VirgilKain

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2006, 02:31:12 pm »
We emailed you a full hadesgate news section on the deadline. Will send again ;D

VirgilKain

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2006, 02:59:02 pm »
Jen,

You say touting as if we were trying sell something.

The entire email that was sent out to over fifty small press can be found on the hadesgate forums board.
All we said was that everyone should help advertise each other, even went as far as advertising a few companies in the back of HF2.
This was taken up by quite a few US based small presses and the circle is slowly expanding. As a result next year Hadesgate will start distributing US books within the UK and vice versa. Like I say, things are expanding.

The only thing we wanted to do that would have cost money was to produce something along the lines of Prism but in the style of a 1950's newspaper. All companies could have included news, reviews and excerpts. But yet again the UK press seemed more than happy to go on in their own little circle of fans. We got plenty of "No, we don't advertise others".

Our next plan is to approach authors. For no fee at all they will be included on the HADESGATE "PENS AT DAWN" page. This is planned to be a market place (database) for genre authors. Yet again many US authors have already shown interest.I only hope the UK writers follow suit.

We are trying, but others seem content to decay in a morass of indifference to the true size and diversity market. ;D



Offline Jen

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2006, 03:33:11 pm »
Quote
You say touting as if we were trying sell something

Arrgh, sorry, my sloppy choice of phrasing... having one of those days where the right words just disappear from my brain...  Probably should have said something like propose/suggest etc..


Quote
The entire email that was sent out to over fifty small press can be found on the hadesgate forums board.

Ah-ha!  Found it now!  Any objections if I post a copy in the BFS forum?  Think it's an idea worth spreading around...

Offline Peter Coleborn

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2006, 06:43:23 pm »
In response to some of Garry Charles's comments re. Fantasycon...

In the past we tried to have someone looking after first-time attendees. This, if I recall correctly, was only partially successful. It was only meant as a way to introduce old timers with new attendees, not to hold hands all weekend (forgive me if you think I am slurring you: not intended) as some people seemed to want. I know it can be daunting trying to intrude on a conversation between old friends (and these people may only meet once a year at Fantasycon) -- but you have to give it a go, get involved in the discussion. I accept that some groups may be rather insular; if so move to another. Intruding works, I know, because I had to do this, as did people like Jenny and Vicki. Another way to become better known is to get involved with the running of the BFS and/or Fantasycon.

I am surprised by your comments about FCon guests. In my experience, with a few unfortunate exceptions, they are always around and about. Try the bar (buy them a drink?) or the dealers' room.

I hope you enjoy yourself at Fantasycon 2006.

VirgilKain

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2006, 07:35:14 pm »
Peter,

I don't need my hand holding, I'm capable of getting myself anywhere. I also have no problem with introducing myself to anyone, I'm not intimidated and I find nothing daunting (just check out my latest adventure). I'lll just as soon ask Tony Todd if he wants a drink as I would Joe Bloggs Smithy McSmithyson.

I was only stating what others talk about away from this forum. That certain group/s have got their little clicky sets and they have no wish to be intruded upon.
I know when someone is looking at me as if I shouldn't be there. When this is the case I leave until I find someone more approacable, if you are a committee member you should be the most approachable person at the convention.

Certain people are the face of the BFS and they should be circulating all day when not doing talks and interviewing the guests. Instead they retreat to their little table and build a wall around themselves. Yes, I understand they are busy, but this is what they take on when accepting the role.

As an example I will quote mine (and my guests) worst memory. We'd paid for the banquet and sat down next to the wonderful Stan Nichols, only for some pompous ass sat directly across from me taking one look and announcing (to much merriment) that Tattoos should be banned from the table.

Seeing as I have 18 pieces of BODYART and my female guest also had numerous selections on her arms this was taken personnally. Comments like this, from the person it came from, should be kept to oneself. I don't judge people by their shirt and tie and don't expect that treatment from my peers.

Add to that a "wiity" conversation on how 15 year old children are thick (IMO if they don't know things by that age the education board has a lot to answer for). Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse dyslexic children were added to the list of lazy and stupid. At this point I'd had enough, so much so that I left the table before the main course was complete.

On the whole I enjoyed FCON 2005. I met some great people. I was just let down by the people I had previously looked up to. This isn't how members should left feeling.

I know that other aspects of the hierachy grate at people like Mr C R Barker and force him to ask for a major reshuffle of the committee. I still agree that an influx of new blood is what it needs at this time. In no way think I am offering my services as I'm too busy to take on that kind of responsibility, but it is time to move forward and the old school beliefs of some BFS is killing a great society.




VirgilKain

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2006, 08:00:52 pm »
Jenny, please feel free to repost it here. ;D

Offline Jen

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2006, 08:18:38 am »
Okie doke!  Cheers. 

On a wildly off topic question... I've always wondered... is it embarassing if people want a closer look at body art on display?  Cos I've always been too chicken to ask when I see a piece I like...   

VirgilKain

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2006, 09:54:38 am »
Jen,

If a person has a nice piece of bodyart they love to be asked to show it. After all they are a walking gallery.
If I have anything you want a closer look at, just ask. ;D

David Lee Stone

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2006, 09:37:24 am »
Garry,

The click thing IS a problem and I've heard the rumours, also....though I've never been to Fcon myself.

However...

The problem is that clicks are very easily formed and it's really odd how you don't notice until you step back.

An example. I go with the same group of (rpg gamer) people to a local BBQ. I didn't realize until the last one - when I was getting up to grab a burger - just how quickly the circle 'closes' around them - making it impossible for new people to get in. This sucks, and when I told the others what I'd seen - they were actually HORRIFIED that we were doing it. I know it looks intended but most of the time it probably isn't.

Plus, if you meet the same people at Fcon for - I dunno - five years in a row, it must be difficult not to spend time with them as they've kinda become good friends and probably only get to see each other once a year.

That's my guess, anyway......

.....cool about the bodyart! I've got two gaming mates who between them have 36 pieces. I made a joke about fridge magnets once....

....never again.

 ;D

Offline Debbie

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2006, 06:56:45 pm »
If a person has a nice piece of bodyart they love to be asked to show it. After all they are a walking gallery.
If I have anything you want a closer look at, just ask. ;D

Just so long as it isn't John Carter (who hasn't registered btw) as we all know where he has his piercings and even that's too much information..... ;) *and* he'd whip 'em out without any further encouragement!

On a different note - yes, FCon can be cliquey. It's hard for it not to be. A great many people tell me they come just to see old friends they haven't seen since last year. But it isn't impossible to break in, though it's difficult. I've been in that situation myself in the past. Apologies for the impolite moron at your banquet table, Garry, but manners are beyond our control unfortunately. And I agree - BFS and FantasyCon committee should be circulating etc. More apologies from me as I tend to be in controlled panic mode until Saturday pm and then once I get to the "surely nothing can go wrong now" stage, I collapse in a heap inside a bottle of wine! Not much good for circulating in either state - but I feel guilty if I leave the registration table for more than 5 minutes as I think I ought to be working there (yes, OK, I admit it - I am a control freak....!)


VirgilKain

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2006, 10:21:45 pm »
Debbie,

You have nothing to apologise for. All the lovely ladies on the reception table did a wonderful job of making people feel welcome.
I look forward to meeting you all again soon.

I think I may have arranged for some American authors (small press) to attend FCon 2007, amongst them a good friend named Nicholas Grabowsky (Halloween 4 and The Everborn) They seem very excited about the prospect and I'll keep you posted.


C.R. Barker

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2006, 01:33:51 am »
A note on proposals:

Have recently been reminded that, actually, if anyone wants to raise a proposal/motion in absentia, they have to email Marie with details, and also the names of 2 seconders as this is the proper procedure...? motions etc. raised live at the agm need to be seconded live by 2 people....

Oh.

Oh well, I *did* say that I thought Ramsey Campbell's offer to resign at the Convention but then to immediately stand against any contender brave enough to put his or her hand up on the day was a false one. Now that my suggestion for a month long selection process has been kicked into touch, he can stop sweating.

Is this really how the BFS runs things? One works-do a year with all decisions being made during one meeting that the vast majority of members won't be attending? Good grief, it's like something out of the dark ages.

CB



C.R. Barker

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Re: AGM Agenda and proposals/motions
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2006, 01:41:34 am »
I'm sure I saw a mention up here somewhere of voting for a new president every year at the AGM.
I thought this idea was a very good one. The swapping between fantasy based and horror based years was also good.


Hi Garry:

Can I count this as you seconding my proposal that the BFS should spend a month+ via online forums and inhouse magazines selecting prospective candidates for BFS president?

CB